Such good eps! (I know, I know, but I'll be saying that all through this season.)
Sam comes off as being quite rubbish at relationships with Mallory, Laurie and a broken engagement.
Sam is terrible at relationships, yes. Though honestly, the entire senior staff seems to be! Toby and Leo are divorced, CJ's taste is clearly questionable, as you point out with the glimpse we see of her ex in this ep, and Josh, well. Josh was with Mandy at one point, which says it all. Of all of them, only the president seems to be any good at it. I'm not sure how much of this is Sorkin not being the kind of writer who does happy relationships and how much is an accurate reflection of the kind of married-to-work personalities you'd have working in a place like the west wing. Probably some of both. But seriously, Sam, that was shitty of you.
I noted that CJ was definitely flirty towards Toby – the whole good in bed thing is only funny in context.
"Because I am," is another line I quote to myself quite often. CJ is superb in this ep, for all the reasons you point out. She may not start out 'saying it right', but she's clearly the one who understands the bigger picture of the day at the end.
although I had got stuck on how you can’t qualify ‘uniquely’
Right? That always struck me as an off note. I think it's probably a pet peeve of Sorkin's that he ended up on the wrong side of, in terms of common use. I still think of it anytime I hear anyone use a qualifier with 'uniquely' though, even if I don't really agree!
There were also one or two bits where the intercutting just didn’t work for me, towards the party where Yo-Yo Ma was playing, possibly once because it was leading to a cut to the breaks.
Noël is my second-favorite ep of the whole series, but I agree with you there. It's the one flaw I find in the episode - it's so painfully obvious that there's a passage of the music played twice. I thought I only noticed it because I've listened to it so much, but if the same thing struck you, maybe not!
And one last quibble, Donna’s ‘Yo-Yo Ma rocks!’? I mean, yes he does, but really, a grown woman saying that?
In Donna's defense, it's actually, "Yo-Yo Ma rules!" Look, the year 2000 was a different time.
I also loved that Toby was the first one to notice that Josh was in a state there, as he was the one to find him at Rosslyn.
Yes! This is one of my favorite character bits for Toby, how he's so observant and so good at reading people when he wants to be, as you'd expect from a writer - even if he finds it difficult to express his concern or care for others. Richard Schiff does such a great job with his pained face in that scene.
I think I need to think more about that ep where we learned Josh had a therapist, who he obviously hadn’t gone to see after Rosslyn, and how that prefigures this. That’s only struck me later, not while I was watching it.
While I agree that there likely wasn't a lot of (or any) thought put into foreshadowing the PTSD plot, I also think this fits it. Josh clearly knows there's something wrong with him, even if he doesn't know what it is, and he's also clearly terrified by it. It makes sense that he'd run from that and avoid it until he couldn't anymore. We'd already seen in S1 that he was a terrible therapy patient who kept things from his therapist and wasn't going regularly, so it doesn't feel off to me here.
That guy was so snooty.
God, I love Bernard Thatch so much. "There it hangs, like a gym sock on a shower rod." He's a delight. And he has a heart in the end!
that story about helping a friend, which I remember (but associated with Leo-Jed for some reason. Is it referred to again?)
It is referred to again, but between Josh and Leo. That does happen in a very Jed-Leo heavy ep though, which might be why you make that association.
The unpicking of the final moments of the episode on the podcast made me realise that I’d been a liitle too optimistic in my understanding of the scene when I first watched it, but at least Josh is now conscious of his triggers and that will help.
I love how ambiguous that scene is. Always gives me chills, with the siren carrying on into the 'flentel' as the podcast guys say.
no subject
Sam comes off as being quite rubbish at relationships with Mallory, Laurie and a broken engagement.
Sam is terrible at relationships, yes. Though honestly, the entire senior staff seems to be! Toby and Leo are divorced, CJ's taste is clearly questionable, as you point out with the glimpse we see of her ex in this ep, and Josh, well. Josh was with Mandy at one point, which says it all. Of all of them, only the president seems to be any good at it. I'm not sure how much of this is Sorkin not being the kind of writer who does happy relationships and how much is an accurate reflection of the kind of married-to-work personalities you'd have working in a place like the west wing. Probably some of both. But seriously, Sam, that was shitty of you.
I noted that CJ was definitely flirty towards Toby – the whole good in bed thing is only funny in context.
"Because I am," is another line I quote to myself quite often. CJ is superb in this ep, for all the reasons you point out. She may not start out 'saying it right', but she's clearly the one who understands the bigger picture of the day at the end.
although I had got stuck on how you can’t qualify ‘uniquely’
Right? That always struck me as an off note. I think it's probably a pet peeve of Sorkin's that he ended up on the wrong side of, in terms of common use. I still think of it anytime I hear anyone use a qualifier with 'uniquely' though, even if I don't really agree!
There were also one or two bits where the intercutting just didn’t work for me, towards the party where Yo-Yo Ma was playing, possibly once because it was leading to a cut to the breaks.
Noël is my second-favorite ep of the whole series, but I agree with you there. It's the one flaw I find in the episode - it's so painfully obvious that there's a passage of the music played twice. I thought I only noticed it because I've listened to it so much, but if the same thing struck you, maybe not!
And one last quibble, Donna’s ‘Yo-Yo Ma rocks!’? I mean, yes he does, but really, a grown woman saying that?
In Donna's defense, it's actually, "Yo-Yo Ma rules!" Look, the year 2000 was a different time.
I also loved that Toby was the first one to notice that Josh was in a state there, as he was the one to find him at Rosslyn.
Yes! This is one of my favorite character bits for Toby, how he's so observant and so good at reading people when he wants to be, as you'd expect from a writer - even if he finds it difficult to express his concern or care for others. Richard Schiff does such a great job with his pained face in that scene.
I think I need to think more about that ep where we learned Josh had a therapist, who he obviously hadn’t gone to see after Rosslyn, and how that prefigures this. That’s only struck me later, not while I was watching it.
While I agree that there likely wasn't a lot of (or any) thought put into foreshadowing the PTSD plot, I also think this fits it. Josh clearly knows there's something wrong with him, even if he doesn't know what it is, and he's also clearly terrified by it. It makes sense that he'd run from that and avoid it until he couldn't anymore. We'd already seen in S1 that he was a terrible therapy patient who kept things from his therapist and wasn't going regularly, so it doesn't feel off to me here.
That guy was so snooty.
God, I love Bernard Thatch so much. "There it hangs, like a gym sock on a shower rod." He's a delight. And he has a heart in the end!
that story about helping a friend, which I remember (but associated with Leo-Jed for some reason. Is it referred to again?)
It is referred to again, but between Josh and Leo. That does happen in a very Jed-Leo heavy ep though, which might be why you make that association.
The unpicking of the final moments of the episode on the podcast made me realise that I’d been a liitle too optimistic in my understanding of the scene when I first watched it, but at least Josh is now conscious of his triggers and that will help.
I love how ambiguous that scene is. Always gives me chills, with the siren carrying on into the 'flentel' as the podcast guys say.