The The West Wing double bill post
May. 22nd, 2021 08:55 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shallownessThe West Wing - 2.09 Galileo and 2.10 Noël
I’ll take any love letter to CJ, and to exploring space to a lesser extent. And so we got the explanation for what happened between Sam and Mallory, or what hadn’t happened because he…just didn’t talk to her at all after the picture with Laurie came out. That seems like major avoidance of someone you were bound to come across there, and while I tried to temper my judginess, I couldn’t manage it. They obviously weren’t MTB, and I always thought there were problems with her being Leo’s daughter, but Sam comes off as being quite rubbish at relationships with Mallory, Laurie and a broken engagement. And in this episode that shows off his writing skills, couldn’t he have written a letter? Mallory had every right to be angry, but the best revenge was that she’d moved on with someone who got under Sam’s skin, er, I mean seemed to be equally invested in the relationship, and who wasn’t, as I admit to wondering for a second, the subpar NASA writer. The fact that we didn’t really see her interact with Leo was telling about how much I should expect to see her return, though.
I was very amused by how Josh talked himself into getting Toby’s unwanted stamp gig by not being able to rein in the obnoxious (Leo wanted to talk to him first, but apparently it wasn’t about anything important.) Donna got so into it!
I liked that the ep addressed the persistent issue of CJ feeling undervalued and undermined by her (male) colleagues. This is not to say that CJ doesn’t have a healthy ego herself, which is part of the problem (as we could see in her interaction with the rejected candidate and ex whose every word made one’s eyebrows raise. Right call on not promoting him and being very clear that he wasn’t going to get promoted in this administration given the way he talked. And really, CJ should be glad to have got out of that relationship.)
But it started with the President, even if his ‘you’re not saying it right’ was tame in the context of other slights, real and perceived, and led to the nice ending between them where she ave him his theme, and I liked the podcasters pointing out how that willingness to admit she was wrong and learn was so her. The President was a handful to rein in in that opening scene.
CJ was also right that the bad writing had repeated ‘live’ twice, although I had got stuck on how you can’t qualify ‘uniquely’. And it was then about Sam’s stirring, impromptu speech. (I did half-query the pronouns, but Lowe and the music rushed me past that, so I was more amused than anything about the podcast’s takedown.)
Charlie balanced out the paying for teachers’ education idea by having been the one to let the President’s dislike of green beans slip, but she was receptive to his line about not treating the voters like they’re stupid. (Perhaps because she was not liking being made to feel stupid.)
Josh’s saying he’d decided they should give the man a stamp felt…convenient, because we’d been set up to think that Donna’s enthused campaigning wasn’t working. I noted that CJ was definitely flirty towards Toby – the whole good in bed thing is only funny in context. But I loved that her brilliance continued through to the scene with Bartlet, where she found the broader theme, one that allowed the President to channel his desire to show off into being inspiring. I liked that he’d had his mind changed by the music he’d been so grumpy about (though as he railed about modern music I thought Charlie should counter with the Beatles, because I’m cheap).
Watching these two eps as a double bill, Bartlet talking about writing to the composer was interesting given the ensuing argument over how he wasn’t allowed to actually sign all the Christmas cards he was sending. Also, watching the President’s motorcade pull in at the Kennedy Center was the first time we saw anything like that since Rosslyn, and ‘Noël’ made me think about the timing of ‘Galileo’, which all happened in one day, somewhere between Thanksgiving and three weeks before Christmas Eve. (The set person interviewed on the podcast suggested that the real White House would be festively decorated immediately after Thanksgiving was over.) That there didn’t seem to be any overlapping storylines maybe jumped out at me more.
‘Noël’ is another powerhouse, although if I just get my minor critiques out of the way, the previously did show that this wasn’t exactly seeded. This may be in keeping with PTSD symptoms suddenly emerging, but the talk about the psychological impact was focused at Toby. Nothing has come up about Josh and the shooting since he declined to sue the Klan. There were also one or two bits where the intercutting just didn’t work for me, towards the party where Yo-Yo Ma was playing, possibly once because it was leading to a cut to the breaks. In fairness, that jumped out at me because the rest was so seamless and clever. And one last quibble, Donna’s ‘Yo-Yo Ma rocks!’? I mean, yes he does, but really, a grown woman saying that?
The spine was a two-hander between Josh and the psychologist (when trainee Kaytha spoke up again, it was almost like ‘Oh yeah, you’re in the room.’) I really love that we didn’t see whatever the meltdown was at the party. I also loved that Toby was the first one to notice that Josh was in a state there, as he was the one to find him at Rosslyn. The Josh-Leo stuff was the big beating heart, also covering that Josh’s friends had been worried about him for a while and were looking out for him, especially Donna, as they then went to get the hand looked at and treated.
I think I need to think more about that ep where we learned Josh had a therapist, who he obviously hadn’t gone to see after Rosslyn, and how that prefigures this. That’s only struck me later, not while I was watching it. But I think Whitford was right in the podcast, looking back, Josh’s PTSD was handled naively here in this episode, although at the time, it was probably fairly radical.
The other strands were reassuringly normal West Wing business, Toby overreacting after last Christmas (and the complaint about the loudness was valid, ESPECIALLY THE BAGPIPES.) Great handover from character to character in the opening.
CJ’s storyline really touched me in the ending, because of course the lady was going to take and keep that picture. But I loved that the incident niggled at CJ and she followed it up. That guy was so snooty.
But Leo, recognising Josh wasn’t fully conscious in that scene in the Oval Office (which was awful emotionally and gripping dramatically), waiting for him to come out of the session, and that story about helping a friend, which I remember (but associated with Leo-Jed for some reason. Is it referred to again?) I was reminded of his bringing Josh on board, and how their relationship has shifted from Leo being Josh’s father’s friend to Josh’s friend, partly because of Josh standing by him when the alcoholism was made public.
And the hurt and the anger, how hostile Josh was to the therapists, how it was slowly revealed that some of it was fear that because of whatever he knew was wrong with him would stop him from doing his job. When it was his job that had got him into the life-threatening, traumatic situation. The unpicking of the final moments of the episode on the podcast made me realise that I’d been a liitle too optimistic in my understanding of the scene when I first watched it, but at least Josh is now conscious of his triggers and that will help.
I’ll take any love letter to CJ, and to exploring space to a lesser extent. And so we got the explanation for what happened between Sam and Mallory, or what hadn’t happened because he…just didn’t talk to her at all after the picture with Laurie came out. That seems like major avoidance of someone you were bound to come across there, and while I tried to temper my judginess, I couldn’t manage it. They obviously weren’t MTB, and I always thought there were problems with her being Leo’s daughter, but Sam comes off as being quite rubbish at relationships with Mallory, Laurie and a broken engagement. And in this episode that shows off his writing skills, couldn’t he have written a letter? Mallory had every right to be angry, but the best revenge was that she’d moved on with someone who got under Sam’s skin, er, I mean seemed to be equally invested in the relationship, and who wasn’t, as I admit to wondering for a second, the subpar NASA writer. The fact that we didn’t really see her interact with Leo was telling about how much I should expect to see her return, though.
I was very amused by how Josh talked himself into getting Toby’s unwanted stamp gig by not being able to rein in the obnoxious (Leo wanted to talk to him first, but apparently it wasn’t about anything important.) Donna got so into it!
I liked that the ep addressed the persistent issue of CJ feeling undervalued and undermined by her (male) colleagues. This is not to say that CJ doesn’t have a healthy ego herself, which is part of the problem (as we could see in her interaction with the rejected candidate and ex whose every word made one’s eyebrows raise. Right call on not promoting him and being very clear that he wasn’t going to get promoted in this administration given the way he talked. And really, CJ should be glad to have got out of that relationship.)
But it started with the President, even if his ‘you’re not saying it right’ was tame in the context of other slights, real and perceived, and led to the nice ending between them where she ave him his theme, and I liked the podcasters pointing out how that willingness to admit she was wrong and learn was so her. The President was a handful to rein in in that opening scene.
CJ was also right that the bad writing had repeated ‘live’ twice, although I had got stuck on how you can’t qualify ‘uniquely’. And it was then about Sam’s stirring, impromptu speech. (I did half-query the pronouns, but Lowe and the music rushed me past that, so I was more amused than anything about the podcast’s takedown.)
Charlie balanced out the paying for teachers’ education idea by having been the one to let the President’s dislike of green beans slip, but she was receptive to his line about not treating the voters like they’re stupid. (Perhaps because she was not liking being made to feel stupid.)
Josh’s saying he’d decided they should give the man a stamp felt…convenient, because we’d been set up to think that Donna’s enthused campaigning wasn’t working. I noted that CJ was definitely flirty towards Toby – the whole good in bed thing is only funny in context. But I loved that her brilliance continued through to the scene with Bartlet, where she found the broader theme, one that allowed the President to channel his desire to show off into being inspiring. I liked that he’d had his mind changed by the music he’d been so grumpy about (though as he railed about modern music I thought Charlie should counter with the Beatles, because I’m cheap).
Watching these two eps as a double bill, Bartlet talking about writing to the composer was interesting given the ensuing argument over how he wasn’t allowed to actually sign all the Christmas cards he was sending. Also, watching the President’s motorcade pull in at the Kennedy Center was the first time we saw anything like that since Rosslyn, and ‘Noël’ made me think about the timing of ‘Galileo’, which all happened in one day, somewhere between Thanksgiving and three weeks before Christmas Eve. (The set person interviewed on the podcast suggested that the real White House would be festively decorated immediately after Thanksgiving was over.) That there didn’t seem to be any overlapping storylines maybe jumped out at me more.
‘Noël’ is another powerhouse, although if I just get my minor critiques out of the way, the previously did show that this wasn’t exactly seeded. This may be in keeping with PTSD symptoms suddenly emerging, but the talk about the psychological impact was focused at Toby. Nothing has come up about Josh and the shooting since he declined to sue the Klan. There were also one or two bits where the intercutting just didn’t work for me, towards the party where Yo-Yo Ma was playing, possibly once because it was leading to a cut to the breaks. In fairness, that jumped out at me because the rest was so seamless and clever. And one last quibble, Donna’s ‘Yo-Yo Ma rocks!’? I mean, yes he does, but really, a grown woman saying that?
The spine was a two-hander between Josh and the psychologist (when trainee Kaytha spoke up again, it was almost like ‘Oh yeah, you’re in the room.’) I really love that we didn’t see whatever the meltdown was at the party. I also loved that Toby was the first one to notice that Josh was in a state there, as he was the one to find him at Rosslyn. The Josh-Leo stuff was the big beating heart, also covering that Josh’s friends had been worried about him for a while and were looking out for him, especially Donna, as they then went to get the hand looked at and treated.
I think I need to think more about that ep where we learned Josh had a therapist, who he obviously hadn’t gone to see after Rosslyn, and how that prefigures this. That’s only struck me later, not while I was watching it. But I think Whitford was right in the podcast, looking back, Josh’s PTSD was handled naively here in this episode, although at the time, it was probably fairly radical.
The other strands were reassuringly normal West Wing business, Toby overreacting after last Christmas (and the complaint about the loudness was valid, ESPECIALLY THE BAGPIPES.) Great handover from character to character in the opening.
CJ’s storyline really touched me in the ending, because of course the lady was going to take and keep that picture. But I loved that the incident niggled at CJ and she followed it up. That guy was so snooty.
But Leo, recognising Josh wasn’t fully conscious in that scene in the Oval Office (which was awful emotionally and gripping dramatically), waiting for him to come out of the session, and that story about helping a friend, which I remember (but associated with Leo-Jed for some reason. Is it referred to again?) I was reminded of his bringing Josh on board, and how their relationship has shifted from Leo being Josh’s father’s friend to Josh’s friend, partly because of Josh standing by him when the alcoholism was made public.
And the hurt and the anger, how hostile Josh was to the therapists, how it was slowly revealed that some of it was fear that because of whatever he knew was wrong with him would stop him from doing his job. When it was his job that had got him into the life-threatening, traumatic situation. The unpicking of the final moments of the episode on the podcast made me realise that I’d been a liitle too optimistic in my understanding of the scene when I first watched it, but at least Josh is now conscious of his triggers and that will help.
no subject
Date: 2021-05-22 09:26 am (UTC)Sam comes off as being quite rubbish at relationships with Mallory, Laurie and a broken engagement.
Sam is terrible at relationships, yes. Though honestly, the entire senior staff seems to be! Toby and Leo are divorced, CJ's taste is clearly questionable, as you point out with the glimpse we see of her ex in this ep, and Josh, well. Josh was with Mandy at one point, which says it all. Of all of them, only the president seems to be any good at it. I'm not sure how much of this is Sorkin not being the kind of writer who does happy relationships and how much is an accurate reflection of the kind of married-to-work personalities you'd have working in a place like the west wing. Probably some of both. But seriously, Sam, that was shitty of you.
I noted that CJ was definitely flirty towards Toby – the whole good in bed thing is only funny in context.
"Because I am," is another line I quote to myself quite often. CJ is superb in this ep, for all the reasons you point out. She may not start out 'saying it right', but she's clearly the one who understands the bigger picture of the day at the end.
although I had got stuck on how you can’t qualify ‘uniquely’
Right? That always struck me as an off note. I think it's probably a pet peeve of Sorkin's that he ended up on the wrong side of, in terms of common use. I still think of it anytime I hear anyone use a qualifier with 'uniquely' though, even if I don't really agree!
There were also one or two bits where the intercutting just didn’t work for me, towards the party where Yo-Yo Ma was playing, possibly once because it was leading to a cut to the breaks.
Noël is my second-favorite ep of the whole series, but I agree with you there. It's the one flaw I find in the episode - it's so painfully obvious that there's a passage of the music played twice. I thought I only noticed it because I've listened to it so much, but if the same thing struck you, maybe not!
And one last quibble, Donna’s ‘Yo-Yo Ma rocks!’? I mean, yes he does, but really, a grown woman saying that?
In Donna's defense, it's actually, "Yo-Yo Ma rules!" Look, the year 2000 was a different time.
I also loved that Toby was the first one to notice that Josh was in a state there, as he was the one to find him at Rosslyn.
Yes! This is one of my favorite character bits for Toby, how he's so observant and so good at reading people when he wants to be, as you'd expect from a writer - even if he finds it difficult to express his concern or care for others. Richard Schiff does such a great job with his pained face in that scene.
I think I need to think more about that ep where we learned Josh had a therapist, who he obviously hadn’t gone to see after Rosslyn, and how that prefigures this. That’s only struck me later, not while I was watching it.
While I agree that there likely wasn't a lot of (or any) thought put into foreshadowing the PTSD plot, I also think this fits it. Josh clearly knows there's something wrong with him, even if he doesn't know what it is, and he's also clearly terrified by it. It makes sense that he'd run from that and avoid it until he couldn't anymore. We'd already seen in S1 that he was a terrible therapy patient who kept things from his therapist and wasn't going regularly, so it doesn't feel off to me here.
That guy was so snooty.
God, I love Bernard Thatch so much. "There it hangs, like a gym sock on a shower rod." He's a delight. And he has a heart in the end!
that story about helping a friend, which I remember (but associated with Leo-Jed for some reason. Is it referred to again?)
It is referred to again, but between Josh and Leo. That does happen in a very Jed-Leo heavy ep though, which might be why you make that association.
The unpicking of the final moments of the episode on the podcast made me realise that I’d been a liitle too optimistic in my understanding of the scene when I first watched it, but at least Josh is now conscious of his triggers and that will help.
I love how ambiguous that scene is. Always gives me chills, with the siren carrying on into the 'flentel' as the podcast guys say.
no subject
Date: 2021-05-23 01:04 pm (UTC)I'm not sure how much of this is Sorkin not being the kind of writer who does happy relationships and how much is an accurate reflection of the kind of married-to-work personalities you'd have working in a place like the west wing.
Yes, I tend to think it's both. The show dabbles with romantic comedy, and Sorkin's bias towards comedy as much as drama, makes me expect there to be more relationships working out than in less funny dramas. But he's mainly known for workplace settings, and it is pretty clear that work comes first for most of the characters.
she's clearly the one who understands the bigger picture of the day at the end.
And it's the humility and openess that she displays while others think they're saying it right from the beginning that helps her do that.
I think it's probably a pet peeve of Sorkin's that he ended up on the wrong side of, in terms of common use.
As someone who has their pet peeves despite coomon use, I can sympathise with him, and I could sympathise that even as he railed about that he inevitably made another mistake. I probably agree more with him on qualifying 'uniquely' even though I love my adverbs far too much, though that's not a pet peeve.
Your anaysis of how Josh's behaviour towards his therapist/issues in the first season fits with his behaviour here works for me. I suppose what I'm left feeling is not that it's off, but that the foreshadowing and building up to this could have been a little more developed.
It is referred to again, but between Josh and Leo. That does happen in a very Jed-Leo heavy ep though, which might be why you make that association.
Ah, thank you. I'll look out for that.