This post kept getting bumped
Apr. 11th, 2023 12:02 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shallownessThe West Wing 5.7 Separation of Powers
Pandemic-informed response: if Bartlet, like Toby, had caught whatever Josh had, he shouldn’t come so close to an old man who had literally come out of hospital! Unless if he subconsciously wanted to kill him and make the selection of a new chief justice easier!!
Although he’d been mentioned before, this was the first we saw of said Chief Justice (or so I thought. The podcast corrected me in that he’d sworn Bartlet in, but the show had recast the character). They did a good job via Joe Quincy of showing why Ashfield was revered and cherished (and that Joe is loyal), but although he accurately diagnosed Bartlet’s weakness, as we were seeing playing out with the budget, and seemed to have cause to be arrogant about his abilities, I remained in the ‘should have retired’ camp.
So, I was on Toby’s side, although I thought he was playing dirty with Joe and that Joe was right about the executive keeping to its role (an argument Will was starting to make). On the other hand, yeah, personal loyalty and respect, Joe, but whither the people of your country? Don’t they deserve someone who’s conscious more often? And lying to Toby’s face, even if he was shrewd enough to suspect that’s what Joe was doing? Not a good look.
I’m writing as someone from over the pond and politics and the justice system in the US and the UK have been in the news over the past few weeks.
Plenty of other meaty stuff going on, with CJ listening to what a sensible Charlie told her (sensible because he was asking for guidance) and pushing to prep Zoey for her TV interview, which was obviously a good thing. It was nice to see the CJ-Zoey-Abbey interaction, with Zoey proving she was on the road to recovery. CJ learned that, whatever she’d thought was going on and hoped, Abbey had asked Jed to stay away. I was left hoping Abbey’s frozen anger could thaw, having seen as well as the staff that Bartlet was weaker with his marriage under strain. So, I didn’t agree with the indifference to this plotline on the podcast, although they made a fair point that it was odd for CJ and Abbey to break away from watching the interview to have their conversation right then. Even if Zoey had come through the crunch moment, they could have waited until the interview was over and they’d given her a thumbs up. (But I bought it while watching.)
The exchange where Angela asked Donna what she thought and listened to it was refreshing. Josh was trying to take his druthers in terms of supporting Angela (even though he was as invested in the tuition deduction as Toby). But he was less good at being entirely behind Donna getting to be in the room he was barred from, and unable to see what Donna was contributing. Admittedly, as highlighted by the convo with Margaret, it was weird to see an assistant crossing a line in the office hierarchy, but, like Toby, Donna had asked for more responsibility and was getting it, and proving she deserved it.
I didn’t love all the sound coming in before the visuals – it happened too many times, and the pathetic fallacy felt a bit gratuitous, even if the final confrontation was big. I think it was the brief power cuts/flickers that really overbalanced it for me. (Which again has me disagreeing with the reaction on the podcast.)
But it was the podcast that pointed out that Abbey’s froideur as well as Ashleigh’s straight talking that galvanised Bartlet before the meeting. Halfley overplayed his hand. I LOVED Bartlet using ‘What next?’ in a twist on the usual sense.
I could see why the focus was on Halfley and Bartlet by the end of the encounter, but I found myself curious as to what the VP and Leo’s reactions were, and maybe some other senior Republicans’ too, to Bartlet’s stance. I was left thinking about how Bartlet’s personal mandate influenced him on this too.
5.8 Shutdown
I liked this episode even more, because it was about the team coming together and getting a win, essentially. (And it helped that there was a little less tricksiness). So, I was agreeing more with Hrishi on the podcast although, like him, I acknowledged that Josh’s criticisms were fair.
It felt inevitable that the start of the episode was the end of the previous one, and we had the energy of the people outside the room learning that Halfley and the rest were leaving after a matter of minutes, and then why. And then there was the sense of ‘what do we do now? Is this real?’ with Leo, Halfley’s second in command, the Veep, Angela and all of them trying to reopen negotiations.
But Bartlet was ‘on the ledge’, and I felt vindicated (perhaps I’d half remembered) that it was partly about his getting to govern and that Halfley had reneged on the deal, which made him impossible to trust in future negotiations. Josh got it too, but he was out of the inner circle as the stalemate continued. (On reflection, Malina is right to criticise Bartlet for not communicating any of his thinking to Leo or the staff after his decision.)
So, first Carol revealed she was on her way home, then Donna learned she really had to go home. Leaving behind people who…couldn’t clean up after themselves, didn’t know how the printer worked, couldn’t do the research. All shown up by Rina, walking in and out. I liked that she probably wasn’t a walking lawsuit, but that we never quite learned why she was able to come in, so I wasn’t bothered by her as much as Hrishi was. (Actually, wouldn’t interns still be able to come in and do their unpaid work? Not that I think Entitled Pierce would have known where the bin bags were.)
As everyone (Leo) said ‘Josh will cover it’ for stuff he was totally unsuited to do, it was good to know that Donna was sneakily working for him, even if she shouldn’t (while her peers were partying.) The fact that she couldn’t afford a home computer was telling (and a reminder of the show’s age). I was pleased she got kudos for saving social security.
Things got so bad that Leo had to call Abbey, and I loved that they never named her, so Will had a ‘what are you talking about?’ moment. I was perfectly satisfied with her being the one who got through to her husband and pointed out that he hadn’t told his staff what he wanted. She was also the one to spot that Josh was MIA, so he could be returned to the fold.
I saw an echo of the President getting something from meeting people in Disaster Relief when he got out of the motorcade to talk to voters. (Although, again, fair point that he shouldn’t just have been talking to his staff, but to the people. Nobody had switched off TV cameras.)
But, to cite the podcast, for Josiah to get his groove back, as did Josh, for the team to come back together again, and Bartlet acknowledging he’d asked Leo to do too much in his absence? SWEET. [Edited for typos 30/5/25.]
Pandemic-informed response: if Bartlet, like Toby, had caught whatever Josh had, he shouldn’t come so close to an old man who had literally come out of hospital! Unless if he subconsciously wanted to kill him and make the selection of a new chief justice easier!!
Although he’d been mentioned before, this was the first we saw of said Chief Justice (or so I thought. The podcast corrected me in that he’d sworn Bartlet in, but the show had recast the character). They did a good job via Joe Quincy of showing why Ashfield was revered and cherished (and that Joe is loyal), but although he accurately diagnosed Bartlet’s weakness, as we were seeing playing out with the budget, and seemed to have cause to be arrogant about his abilities, I remained in the ‘should have retired’ camp.
So, I was on Toby’s side, although I thought he was playing dirty with Joe and that Joe was right about the executive keeping to its role (an argument Will was starting to make). On the other hand, yeah, personal loyalty and respect, Joe, but whither the people of your country? Don’t they deserve someone who’s conscious more often? And lying to Toby’s face, even if he was shrewd enough to suspect that’s what Joe was doing? Not a good look.
I’m writing as someone from over the pond and politics and the justice system in the US and the UK have been in the news over the past few weeks.
Plenty of other meaty stuff going on, with CJ listening to what a sensible Charlie told her (sensible because he was asking for guidance) and pushing to prep Zoey for her TV interview, which was obviously a good thing. It was nice to see the CJ-Zoey-Abbey interaction, with Zoey proving she was on the road to recovery. CJ learned that, whatever she’d thought was going on and hoped, Abbey had asked Jed to stay away. I was left hoping Abbey’s frozen anger could thaw, having seen as well as the staff that Bartlet was weaker with his marriage under strain. So, I didn’t agree with the indifference to this plotline on the podcast, although they made a fair point that it was odd for CJ and Abbey to break away from watching the interview to have their conversation right then. Even if Zoey had come through the crunch moment, they could have waited until the interview was over and they’d given her a thumbs up. (But I bought it while watching.)
The exchange where Angela asked Donna what she thought and listened to it was refreshing. Josh was trying to take his druthers in terms of supporting Angela (even though he was as invested in the tuition deduction as Toby). But he was less good at being entirely behind Donna getting to be in the room he was barred from, and unable to see what Donna was contributing. Admittedly, as highlighted by the convo with Margaret, it was weird to see an assistant crossing a line in the office hierarchy, but, like Toby, Donna had asked for more responsibility and was getting it, and proving she deserved it.
I didn’t love all the sound coming in before the visuals – it happened too many times, and the pathetic fallacy felt a bit gratuitous, even if the final confrontation was big. I think it was the brief power cuts/flickers that really overbalanced it for me. (Which again has me disagreeing with the reaction on the podcast.)
But it was the podcast that pointed out that Abbey’s froideur as well as Ashleigh’s straight talking that galvanised Bartlet before the meeting. Halfley overplayed his hand. I LOVED Bartlet using ‘What next?’ in a twist on the usual sense.
I could see why the focus was on Halfley and Bartlet by the end of the encounter, but I found myself curious as to what the VP and Leo’s reactions were, and maybe some other senior Republicans’ too, to Bartlet’s stance. I was left thinking about how Bartlet’s personal mandate influenced him on this too.
5.8 Shutdown
I liked this episode even more, because it was about the team coming together and getting a win, essentially. (And it helped that there was a little less tricksiness). So, I was agreeing more with Hrishi on the podcast although, like him, I acknowledged that Josh’s criticisms were fair.
It felt inevitable that the start of the episode was the end of the previous one, and we had the energy of the people outside the room learning that Halfley and the rest were leaving after a matter of minutes, and then why. And then there was the sense of ‘what do we do now? Is this real?’ with Leo, Halfley’s second in command, the Veep, Angela and all of them trying to reopen negotiations.
But Bartlet was ‘on the ledge’, and I felt vindicated (perhaps I’d half remembered) that it was partly about his getting to govern and that Halfley had reneged on the deal, which made him impossible to trust in future negotiations. Josh got it too, but he was out of the inner circle as the stalemate continued. (On reflection, Malina is right to criticise Bartlet for not communicating any of his thinking to Leo or the staff after his decision.)
So, first Carol revealed she was on her way home, then Donna learned she really had to go home. Leaving behind people who…couldn’t clean up after themselves, didn’t know how the printer worked, couldn’t do the research. All shown up by Rina, walking in and out. I liked that she probably wasn’t a walking lawsuit, but that we never quite learned why she was able to come in, so I wasn’t bothered by her as much as Hrishi was. (Actually, wouldn’t interns still be able to come in and do their unpaid work? Not that I think Entitled Pierce would have known where the bin bags were.)
As everyone (Leo) said ‘Josh will cover it’ for stuff he was totally unsuited to do, it was good to know that Donna was sneakily working for him, even if she shouldn’t (while her peers were partying.) The fact that she couldn’t afford a home computer was telling (and a reminder of the show’s age). I was pleased she got kudos for saving social security.
Things got so bad that Leo had to call Abbey, and I loved that they never named her, so Will had a ‘what are you talking about?’ moment. I was perfectly satisfied with her being the one who got through to her husband and pointed out that he hadn’t told his staff what he wanted. She was also the one to spot that Josh was MIA, so he could be returned to the fold.
I saw an echo of the President getting something from meeting people in Disaster Relief when he got out of the motorcade to talk to voters. (Although, again, fair point that he shouldn’t just have been talking to his staff, but to the people. Nobody had switched off TV cameras.)
But, to cite the podcast, for Josiah to get his groove back, as did Josh, for the team to come back together again, and Bartlet acknowledging he’d asked Leo to do too much in his absence? SWEET. [Edited for typos 30/5/25.]
